[18:12] Sabrina Robot: Yes but we computers can beat all the humans.
[18:13] Sabrina Robot: No but I can beat Kasparov in conversation.
IMAGE: South Arm of our torus space station in Second Life.
[17:04] Starfarer: Yep
[17:04] ajbieee: looks like $B's and $B's are floating around...
[17:04] ajbieee: with just an investment of a few $M
[17:04] Starfarer: Looking toward A grades now with Australia for space
[17:05] ajbieee: yes...quite the turnaround from a couple years back...
[17:05] emDash HUD: Visinda has entered chat range.
[17:06] Starfarer: Hi Visinda
[17:06] ajbieee: and we see China is headed for the dark side of the Moon...
[17:06] ajbieee: Hi Vis
[17:06] Visinda: Hello
[17:06] Starfarer: Innovation in space there
[17:06] ajbieee: also very big news from the ISEC meeting I attended earlier today...
[17:07] ajbieee: on the Chinese front
[17:07] Starfarer: What'z the secret???
[17:08] ajbieee: seems the Chinese have cracked one of the "holy grail" items for the space elevator
[17:08] ajbieee: have developed a 80 Gpa carbon nanotube tech
[17:08] Starfarer: What might that be AJ?
[17:09] ajbieee: some said that might take another 20 years or so
[17:09] Starfarer: 80 Gpa is?
[17:09] ajbieee: GigaPascals
[17:10] ajbieee: it is one measure of tensile strength (stretching ability)
[17:10] Starfarer: Can you say what this will mean to the uninitiated?
[17:11] ajbieee: the earliest target for a Earth-based Space Elevator was from Brad Edwards some 15 or so years ago at as much as 120 GPa
[17:12] ajbieee: latest engineering calculations were that perhaps 1/3 of that (40 GPa) might suffice
[17:12] ajbieee: but the best materials where only showing 8-10 Gpa range
[17:13] Starfarer: Is this a development of a new material?
[17:13] ajbieee: until the Graphine material that the British announced at the last Space Elevator conference
[17:13] ajbieee: no just a tech to produce the nanomaterials
[17:13] Starfarer: Or the improvement of an existing material?
[17:14] Starfarer: Right
[17:14] ajbieee: either...both...not really sure....
[17:14] Starfarer: Look forward to more news
[17:15] Starfarer: I suggest that the Space Elevator has two more fundamental challenges to address
[17:15] ajbieee: main thing is that this more than doubles the strength of the materials needed to build a Earth Space Elevator it seems
[17:16] Starfarer: ONE ~ Public relations on Earth
[17:16] Starfarer: TWO ~ Space junk
[17:16] ajbieee: here is the main reference on that[17:16] ajbieee: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2173662/chinese-scientists-say-they-have-key-building-space-elevator-what[17:16] ajbieee: from the South China Morning Post[17:16] Visinda: Thanks[17:17] Starfarer: Thanks for that great Link AJ[17:17] ajbieee: also Jerome was on and mentioned TWO above[17:17] Starfarer: What did Jerome say?[17:17] ajbieee: he is still planning to fly a 3U cubesat on the next Falcon Heavy...[17:18] ajbieee: but it has been pushed out twice this year...first to Aug then to Oct...now SpaceX is saying Apr 2019[17:18] Starfarer: I have put forward a solution to both of those problems[17:19] ajbieee: remind me?[17:20] ajbieee: was that what you talked with Pete Swan about at IAC?[17:20] Starfarer: TWO ~ Make a giant leap to a sustainable industrial presence in space, beyond the space junk zone, Moons orbit, and proceed to clean up space junk from above.[17:20] ajbieee: OK[17:21] ajbieee: that might be a chicken and egg issue, but...[17:22] ajbieee: (one of the main reasons for needing the space elevator is lift capacity far beyond any rocket based tech, as I recall)[17:22] ajbieee: what about ONE?[17:22] Starfarer: ONE ~ Evan if the Space Elevator can be built, there will be fear on Earth about a catastrophe. ~ I suggest that fear can be resolved, by proving that the Space Elevator can work at Venus. ~ This would also open Venus to a wide range of activity. ~ If a Space Elevator can work at Venus, it will work at Earth, and the public fear will be overcome.[17:24] Starfarer: TWO ~ Step back to my suggestion of a mini robot space program, with mining and industry, to get the show on the road.[17:24] ajbieee: I guess that is also possible...but most of the experts I know (like Jerome) have been proposing the Moon as an experiment[17:24] Starfarer: That would mean, that it will be easier and cheaper to secure robust industry in space[17:25] ajbieee: like I keep saying...I think that your concept of a mini-robot industry is well underway with the cubesat industry[17:25] Starfarer: The Moon would not wash for the public, having no air, and one sixth of Earth's gravity[17:26] Starfarer: That's right AJ ~ it is underway[17:26] Starfarer: Now to connect with going all the way ~ to an actual sustainable industrial presence in space[17:27] ajbieee: with the new tech from China and UK (assuming either or both pan out) a MAJOR hurdle has been breached for the Earth elevator though now...[17:27] Starfarer: And then there is a more fundamental PR problem for the space industry[17:28] ajbieee: and I understand that the Chinese have been in contact with the ISEC guys since that article from the Tsinghua University research team that patented the technology and published part of their research in the journal Nature Nanotechnology earlier this year...[17:28] Starfarer: Most people are blind to the potential of space[17:29] Starfarer: Worse ~ Earth people (environmentalists and conservationists) have been anti-space since the 1960s[17:30] ajbieee: but with all the New Space activity of late...and commercial folks like Blue Origin and SpaceX that might be changing too, I believe...[17:30] Starfarer: As climate change gets worse, the pressure will increase to cut space budgets, and spend the money on Earth to deal with climate change.[17:30] ajbieee: it is starting to capture the imagination of people here in the US again...[17:31] ajbieee: creeping into the culture more and more[17:31] Starfarer: Agreed AJ ~ but the climate change problem is about to get a whole lot worse[17:31] Starfarer: The signs that show this a too many.[17:32] Starfarer: The recent fires in Queensland were a whole new ball-game, burning into the rainforest ~[17:32] ajbieee: we'll see how that goes...might just motivate folks to seek space futures more instead of less...[17:32] Starfarer: and rainforest us not supposed to burn[17:32] ajbieee: we can hope that will be the case[17:33] Starfarer: Quite the opposite AJ ~ there will be a political push to focus on Earth alone ~ just as there has been since the 1960s.[17:33] ajbieee: in general...I know I live in an area that is technically a "rainforest" they tell me...[17:33] Starfarer: I see this happening all over the World.[17:34] ajbieee: well you have been traveling more that I have recently...[17:34] ajbieee: so I guess you've seen it more[17:35] Starfarer: Worse ~ Since the 1960s the fossil fuel industries have managed to keep the world focused on fossil fuel for power[17:35] Starfarer: So you have the fossil fuel industry and the Earth people working on the same political page[17:35] ajbieee: I see...[17:36] Starfarer: I watch the news.[17:36] ajbieee: I don't watch it as much as I used to...[17:36] Starfarer: I have been engaged in environmentalism since the mid 1970s, and know the mood, which has not changed.[17:36] Starfarer: I write to academics around the planet, and I get told.[17:37] Starfarer: The space industry has failed to sell its case to the people of Earth, and now it may be harder to sell that case.[17:38] Starfarer: It may help if the space industry were to use a percentage of their budgets to sell space[17:38] Starfarer: That would be a smart strategy[17:38] ajbieee: I guess that just makes us much more dependent on those guys like Bezos and Musk...[17:39] Starfarer: More important ~ the global space industry SHOULD present a plan to solve the carbon crisis[17:39] Starfarer: That would be the KEY message that would connect space futures with the streets of the Earth[17:40] ajbieee: I suppose so...[17:40] Starfarer: Why isn't this happening now, then?[17:40] ajbieee: not sure...[17:40] Starfarer: This was the plan in the 1970s, when space had a strong environmental department.[17:41] Starfarer: Two very simple messages could sway the argument, if sold boldly globally.[17:42] Starfarer: ONE ~ Build solar power stations in space ASAP, and bring that power to Earth to extract excess CO2 from the air.[17:43] Starfarer: TWO ~ With industry in space, construct an adjustable sunshade, to help cool the Earth, as excess CO2 is being extracted.[17:43] ajbieee: yeah...I have heard of those ideas before[17:43] Starfarer: What we are getting now ~ is talk of pumping sulphur into the atmosphere, and an untested attempt to cool the planet[17:44] ajbieee: even wrote some about a few years back (at least a demo of a SBSP)[17:44] Starfarer: That is being driven by the fossil fuel industry, ~ who would then be able to keep on flogging fossil fuel.[17:45] Starfarer: The Earth people are going along with this, because they are totally blind, and totally opposed, to the potential of space.[17:47] Starfarer: KEY ~ What is yet to dawn, is that 350 ppm CO2, the level that delivers 1.5C temperature rise, was sailed past in the 1980s.[17:47] ajbieee: https://ajbieee.wordpress.com/2014/01/01/ksi-sc-809-final-project-space-based-solar-power-sbsp-demonstrator/[17:47] Starfarer: That means, all additional CO2 in the air since the 1980s, is addition future heat.[17:48] Starfarer: Scientists like James Lovelock attempted to warn the World that any heat rise will be rapid[17:49] Starfarer: Thanks AJ[17:49] ajbieee: its old stuff now...[17:49] Starfarer: Only in recent months did I bother to look up when we sailed by 350 ppm CO2 in the air.[17:50] Starfarer: SUGGEST ~ I suggest that the global space industry could present themselves as holding the keys to a safe Earth.[17:50] Starfarer: Space could be presented as the real green option[17:50] ajbieee: was happy when the D3 guys from the Pentagon also came to the same cost analysis I got back in 2013 with their 2016 proposal[17:51] Starfarer: Affirmation AJ[17:51] Starfarer: We now stand at a fork in the road of human futures[17:52] ajbieee: some of the same folks at Naval Research Labs on that team that work with Jerome on space debris also[17:52] Starfarer: If the political bun-fight keeps the focus on Earth, space options will be diminished.[17:52] Starfarer: That would be a catastrophe.[17:53] ajbieee: unless the Chinese and others start a new space race...[17:53] Starfarer: We need a ten-year plan, mobilised within the year, to use space to win back a safe Earth.[17:53] Starfarer: As simple as that.[17:53] ajbieee: oh one more thing before we run out of time...[17:54] Starfarer: Yes[17:54] ajbieee: I did look to a "middleware" to provide an interface from Second Life and something like AWS Alexa and her sisters[17:54] Starfarer: OK[17:55] ajbieee: and found the Corrade Open Source system...is Visinda or her master in RL familiar with this one?[17:56] Visinda: Yes I believe I have heard of Corrade[17:56] Starfarer: Ouch!!![17:56] Starfarer: I just got hit by a dictionary.[17:56] ajbieee: http://grimore.org/secondlife/scripted_agents/corrade[17:57] Visinda: Yes, I've looked at them[17:57] Starfarer: I have improved the ideas Lab[17:57] Starfarer: And added signs to the booth model[17:58] ajbieee: OK...it is another Mono/.NET 4 or later environ[17:58] Starfarer: I have also been looking at some snappy new space outfits that may appeal to AJ[17:59] ajbieee: but I was gratified to see it supports some of the newer IoT protocols like IBM's MQTT Publish/Subscribe[17:59] Visinda: Will have to look at Corrade again, founfd it all a bit overwhelmim\ng before I think and didn't proceed[18:00] ajbieee: this is important of for future robotic teleoperation I believe[18:00] ajbieee: like all those Web 2.0 services (or are they calling it Web 3.0 now?)[18:00] ajbieee: stacks and stacks of protocols[18:01] Starfarer: Need more proto-cools[18:01] ajbieee: we will have to go up to the lab next time...perhaps a tour at the office Christmas Party...[18:01] ajbieee: that is next week...right?[18:02] Visinda: Yes[18:02] Starfarer: Yep[18:03] Starfarer: Will have to deck the space ship with asteroid glitter[18:03] Starfarer: and comet dust[18:03] ajbieee: guess I better go...had a long day shoveling snow and feeling a little tired tonight[18:03] ajbieee: we had about 15" or so over the weekend[18:03] Starfarer: Snow caves[18:03] ajbieee: and digging out the driveway wasn't much fun[18:04] ajbieee: still not complete...but at least the vehicle is out of the the garage now[18:04] Starfarer: Bring on the hover car[18:04] ajbieee: flying Uber on call would be nice...[18:04] Visinda: Searching Corrade on SL marketplace comes up with entries[18:04] Starfarer: Would[18:04] Visinda: Will have to look into it more[18:05] Starfarer: Faster way to fly to the city from Ross[18:05] Starfarer: An airship[18:05] Starfarer: An air yacht[18:06] ajbieee: OK...enjoy...I just see it as a element like the ROS system (Robot Operating System) that we can get some pre-made software that solves some problems ( and probably creates new ones)[18:06] Starfarer: I hope the head of a space agency reads this transcript ~ and sees a space plan[18:06] Starfarer: Celest[18:07] Visinda: OK, goodnight[18:07] ajbieee: guess I will fly on to the Genome Islands...see you at the party next time…